Embracing Winter's Wisdom
I had the pleasure of sitting down with Camille Saunders to discuss something we rarely talk about in modern society - the profound wisdom and challenges of the winter season. This conversation was particularly meaningful as both Camille and I share backgrounds in therapy while embracing spiritual perspectives.
Episode Highlights:
Winter is inherently a time for rest, reflection, and hibernation - yet modern society often pushes us to maintain high activity levels
The season brings unique challenges to our physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual bodies that deserve acknowledgment and care
Setting boundaries around holiday obligations is essential for preserving our energy and wellbeing
The darkness of winter invites us to journey inward and connect more deeply with ourselves
The Physical Impact of Winter
Living in the Pacific Northwest, Camille shared valuable insights about adapting to limited daylight hours. One of the most powerful points we discussed was how our bodies naturally want to align with seasonal rhythms - from eating patterns to sleep schedules.
As I noted in the episode: "Winter is not about the grind... This time of year, our bodies naturally want to rest and retreat, but dominant society and so many of our family systems are expecting high activity times."
Emotional Intelligence and Boundary Setting
One impactful discussion centered around setting boundaries during the holiday season. I shared my personal journey: "I started to notice like even having three, four hours could be too much... I can show up and be fully in that love for thirty minutes versus trying to shield myself for hours."
Camille offered this wisdom about emotional awareness: "Sometimes what's soothing in the moment and what's soothing long term are not the same thing... being mindful about what serves us in both timeframes is important."
Spiritual Depths of the Dark Season
The winter darkness invites us into deeper spiritual connection. As I explained: "This 3D realm where we're living is the light - it's what we can see. And the 5D is the shadow - it's what we can't see, but we can shine a light into through consciousness."
A New Perspective on Winter Goals
Rather than rushing into New Year's resolutions, Camille shared a beautiful metaphor about winter gardening: "In winter is often the best time to do your hardscaping... When there's nothing else in the garden, you can see very clearly what you want to happen or what might be missing."
I loved this metaphor because it really highlights that its a time for building foundations and frameworks, daydreaming and exploring what's possible in the next season of growth. We can set goals during this time for sure, but if we're honoring the season and a more natural rhythm, the "fruition" of our goal won't come until much later, likley in spring or beyond.
Watch the Full Episode
If you enjoyed these insights, I invite you to watch the complete conversation on our YouTube channel or below. The full episode dives deeper into seasonal wisdom, boundary setting, and spiritual practices for the winter months. Subscribe to our channel to catch future podcast episodes, masterclasses, and ritual guidance as we continue exploring the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and seasonal living. If you want to learn more about my guest, Camille, you can check out their website here: https://www.camilleasaunders.com/aboutme.
All My Love,
Safrianna Lughna
The Queer-Spirit Guide
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*Transcript was created in Descript and may not be 100% accurately transcribed.
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Safrianna: Welcome back, my friends, to another episode of The Shadow Side with Safriyana. I am so delighted to be here with one of my new friends, Camille, who is, we share a lot in common and just have a lot of similar worldviews. And so the first time I talked, I was like, we need to share some of our joint perspectives in a live show.
So here we are. Welcome. So if you would be so kind as to introduce yourself, whatever you want to share about you today. Hi.
Camille: Okay. Yeah. Hello. I'm Camille A. Saunders. I'm a lot of things like I want to be today. I'm a sex and relationships therapist. I'm a gardener. I'm a cat mom. I'm a witch, bisexual, so many fun things.
Yeah. And I'm always happy to talk about Okay. Any of them. Yeah. Sometimes the list is real long. So,
Safrianna: well, I was just going to say, check, check, check, in common here.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Safrianna: Yeah. So what I love is that you are, we share this intersection of both being like sex and relationship therapists slash guides and that we have that clinical experience.
We have this very worldly view of things and also this spiritual depth and view that isn't talked about as much. And part of what I was hoping we could talk about today, the episode title is the season of darkness, because right now we are entering winter. And I know when engaged in the traditional systems I was in education, and then I was in therapy, you didn't have A big winter break.
Like you you took a week off, right? You had a little vacation and then it was back to the grind. But winter is not about the grind.
Camille: Yeah. It's like the opposite.
Safrianna: I'm just curious like how this season impacts you? What you think about it? How you approach it with clients, because there's, I don't think we talk about the seasons nearly enough.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting. Cause yeah, I feel like almost as a therapist, this time of year is like busier, like at least after the holidays, like around this time, there's a lot, I feel like of, yeah, of Deep stuff going on where I live in the Pacific Northwest. It's super dark physically and it's super rainy and cold.
Like it gets in your bones. And so I think about, yeah, I try to think of it now. It's like a hibernation time which has helped me kind of embrace parts of that, but I agree. Yeah. In sort of the systems I've been a part of, I feel like there's almost Transcribed This like grind, especially to take time off, right?
I think oftentimes. We really feel like, Oh, like I'm going to take time off. Therefore I have to like work twice as hard right beforehand or after to catch up or try to make time for that, which honestly just makes me sad. Cause I think we all like, To serve time off and I spend a lot of time still trying to go outside at this time of year usually at 1 p.
m. Because it's pretty dark by 4 when I might normally take a walk and the critters are out and about but they're definitely also slowed down. I live near a river So I see a lot of creatures come back and forth And it's interesting. They also act this kind of like frantic energy to prepare for winter when there's less food for them.
Yeah, that's
Safrianna: see that there's like that natural wisdom in that because as you were saying that I was like, oh, I feel that in my bones right now because I'm planning to like legitimately take some time off and I'm in this oh, but I want to plan and I want to set up all the structures and make sure that the family is going to be provided for.
And so finding a little bit of balance in that between yes, we need to prepare to hibernate, but we also do need to hibernate. And I think. Yeah. Many people in modern society, they just do the frantic thing, especially because of the holidays. Yeah. And then there's no real rest. And then there's no integration and then there's burnout and there's no hibernation.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. And I think we've all had those times off, even on vacations where it feels like when you get back, you need a vacation from your vacation where you went so hard or right. It was just so fun. Fun or high energy or draining, perhaps being around like a lot of people where it's almost Oh yeah.
Where is that? Like integration time. I think for me, that's, I think with clients, what I try to talk about, like, where is your reflective integration time or where like we being a little bit kinder with ourselves knowing that, like being around family can sometimes bring up a lot of stuff.
being in darker weather and colder. It really affects a lot of people. I try to talk to all of my clients about like how they're affected by the physical darkness. And then also write that, like grief. I feel like often comes up this time of year too. That can feel I think for some people out of nowhere, like it just comes whoop, flying in.
And it's like, how do we, yeah, how do we make sense of that? space for that and take care of ourselves, knowing that there are a lot of external pressures and schedules and expectations from people.
Safrianna: Yeah. And part of my point in this program is to really talk about the uncomfortable, the shadow stuff that so many of us avoid.
And I think that A lot of us put pressures on ourselves during this winter season and holiday season to try and avoid the discomfort that comes with having boundaries And like taking care of ourselves because we do have this natural need to rest and retreat and hibernate but dominant society and so many of our family systems are expecting high activity times.
And I think there's so much shame people experience around wanting to have time for themselves or time to just rest. And we need to normalize that. Yeah, it's okay to take rest for you. I know in my work as a therapist, like almost every client that I ever worked with felt this intense pressure to participate in all of the activities with all of the people at this time of year.
Do you, you see that too?
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, even like for myself, I feel that I feel like I have to have a lot more, like you said, like conversations about, okay, like with my partner Okay, we're going into this time with our family. What are our expectations? How are we gonna yeah, protect ourselves and our own like energy and everything, knowing that there are a lot of expectations and like those boundaries are going to get pushed upon.
And so Almost what are we agreeing upon so we can support each other. And so finding those like people in your life that are supportive and understanding and even just yeah, practicing conversations are getting on the same page. I even recently like I was talking and we were like, what's like a, like a code word if we're in a, Party situation and we need an out or need to take a break outside.
Like almost like a safe word of okay, how do we communicate to each other during this time that we might need extra
support?
Camille: And I know I've been definitely practicing my boundaries coming up recently and yeah, trying to notice that. Like when I'm feeling more drained or when I'm feeling for me, what usually happens is.
I feel it's the like, something's happening, I'm overwhelmed, I disassociate, and then after there's this sadness, blow up, anger, upset, of like, why didn't I say that in the moment? Or like, why? That shame parts that come up. And so trying to figure out how do I more preemptively set myself up for success.
So I'm not getting to that point of now I'm lashing out or like now I'm really upset or now I feel really burned out by the conversation. Yeah. And so trying to For me touch in with my body or notice like, okay, maybe normally I feel great hanging out with a friend for five hours straight, but like in the winter time, no, like it's too much.
I take on too much of that, or I just can get to that point a little bit easier. And so even just setting my own expectations for myself of okay. Shorter times. That's okay. And again, here where I live, we have daylight from about 8 a. m. to like maybe 4 p. m. at best. I think our sunset yesterday was at 4.
17. So yeah, just acknowledging that too, that There's way less it's okay, right? I sleep more. I'm like trying to nourish my body more. I do more like fun skincare stuff. And then also acknowledging that like when it is dark, it's hard to tell time is passing because it's so long.
And so sometimes there's the inclination of oh, well it's dark all the time anyway.
Like I might as well, And then those habits are like not great. I might as well watch, binge watch the TV show for five hours or a video game or like some of those escapism things. But I know the next day I often regret when I'm super tired and I need to get up maybe before it's actually light outside.
Safrianna: Yeah, finding that balance can be really challenging. And I want to talk about moving forward, I want to talk about the four bodies physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and like handling the season. But I wanted to go back to, just this like drawing boundaries feels very uncertain.
We're not, As a whole collective, taught how to have boundaries and how to assert our own boundaries and how to communicate them. And I think that having some preemptive boundaries that we can communicate that help us set limits around our holiday engagement, like I've I have some family that I am absolutely fried after spending even 30 to 40 minutes with because the energy is just so chaotic So I know i'm setting myself a limit of i'm drop i'm literally dropping in i'm handing off some treats saying hello giving hugs So nice to see you Now we are literally moving onward into our taking treats to everyone else.
And that's how my boundary has to be. And I have to set those limitations. And we can feel really guilty about that. When, especially with family members, because there's this cultural expectation of obligation with our family. So if you're out there and you're like me and you have family that there's all this pressure for you to spend time with, but it's really, draining for you and you are depleted for weeks, that's not really compassionate for you.
So how can you set some limits and know that, yeah, people might have feelings about that. Of course, my family members, when I'm like, hi, I'm dropping in for 20 minutes, like they're not happy about that. And they want to play the guilt trip sometimes, but I'm just like, this is what I, Can offer. And I'm glad to give you this 20 minutes, right?
So really feeling affirmed in our boundaries because otherwise, just like you said, the boundaries get crossed because they can't respect them. And then all of a sudden the anger comes up and that anger is my boundaries have been violated. And we may have been the one that said yes to something that we really meant no to.
So we are then responsible for that response we have. And it's complicated, but. When we're compassionate and when we're gentle and when we're open to the idea that yeah, we are allowed to set boundaries, even if other people aren't happy about it, we're going to have more to offer in the long run. And that is really hard to trust and believe and is so needed.
Camille: Yeah. I have so many thoughts right now. I'm super curious. Like how, like, how did you decide that was the amount of time that like felt Available to you. It sounds like some of it was like in the past it was longer and that was bad. Yeah, I
Safrianna: mean I used to do whole family, full day holiday visits and then for weeks I would be like sick to my stomach afterwards and my body would be giving me all these signals of like you don't want to be Here, right and this is draining to you and I just felt that I was obligated I had to go So over the years I started to pull back and I started to notice like even having three, four hours could be too much.
Yeah.
Safrianna: Even if it was once or twice a year that I was seeing these certain family members. And then I just, I started to see what would happen if I only dropped in to quickly help with something or to say I'm coming by, I'm going to drop off some stuff, I'm available. I started actually articulating, I can only stay for an hour because I have another thing at this time.
And I would drop in. Yeah, like an hour. Yeah. Yeah, I would put the out there because I needed to know like also it wouldn't be a lie of an out like I would so I could fully in my integrity. I am dropping in and I am leaving. And so I had to set myself up for success in that way. But yeah, it's really like I otherwise have to spend my whole time in.
In those situations, guarded and shielded and not really receiving and giving love versus I can show up and be fully in that love. And, oh, it's so nice to see you this being on this planet. And I give you my love and I give you my gift. And cause for me, I don't really do commercial holidays these days anyway, which my family had a really hard time with for a long time.
I didn't do Thanksgiving. I'm like I, Thanksgiving's not a holiday I really want to support and when I drew that boundary, there were fits. How can you do this? This is ridiculous. Like, all of this, and I just had to, wow, I feel so much better now that I didn't go to that holiday, and really anchor it into my system, that I still felt better.
in myself, even if there was this like temper tantrum energy from them. I get it. You want me there. I completely understand that. I would love to be there and I can't be there if my energy is violated and there are things constantly coming up, like just as an example in my family system, like there would always be conversations about when I'm having kids and I'm not.
So I was like, either we can stop having this conversation or I can stop coming to the events. And so I would come to the event and the conversation would happen. So at that point, it's on me to stop coming. I remember literally I dropped in for the 30 minutes and within the 30 minutes, my weight got brought up and I'm like, well, there was one of the triggers.
I knew it was going to come up, probably, even though we're limiting this time. And we've said all of these things about, please don't say this. So I, I'm sharing all of this because I know so many of us, it's we don't know how to not, yeah. We don't know how to set limits. Yeah the comment temper tantrum energy, is that them thinking they're showing their love?
Like they're fighting for us. I think ultimately that temper tantrum energy comes from other people of the fear of losing us grapple on tight. And that's a self fulfilling prophecy because if we have boundaries, we don't want to do that.
Yeah.
Camille: Yeah.
Yeah, it sounds like for you is a very right.
It was a gradual process. It was time. It took sort of Experimentation of oh, I thought four hours would be good versus a whole day. No Yeah, and long enough kind of there was a
Safrianna: time in there where I went completely cold turkey. No contact.
Camille: Okay. Yeah
Safrianna: And I was like, well, you know that it felt okay, honestly, but then we got back in and I was like, I'll give you this chance now that I have drawn my boundary.
Camille: Yeah,
Safrianna: that I will draw I like I will stand in my empowered boundary. You now know that because I stepped away, I'm willing to step back in. And it was the same thing. So that just told me, okay, we're going to keep pulling back until we find the level that's actually, Right and I am the last person on earth who will ever tell you have to spend the holidays with your families that you're Obligated anything like that.
I'm very pro let people go that can't support you
Camille: yeah And I think it's important to have those people in your life that are affirming of that like I right now I'm thinking of someone I know that I went to grad school with where right now, like on their social media, this is like all they're talking about is you don't have to go.
You're an adult. You get to do whatever you want to do on a holiday. And the amount of people that are like, wait, what? Like I. I can do what I don't have, I don't have to go to Thanksgiving or I don't have to celebrate a holiday that I don't like enforcing or affirming of, or that I can make it my own.
Just, yeah. Giving like people permission in that way. Yeah. And I think sometimes, it could be so healing for us to give that to someone else and be like, I'm doing this. You can do whatever you want. Because so many people in their own spheres or families, like that, no one is saying that, right?
They don't, no one is affirming that. And if anything there is that kind of like frantic clinging or desperation, or just The Oh, well, why can't it be like it was when you were five years old?
Safrianna: Well, your cousin or your brother or your uncle or your this or your, that would really like it if you did this.
Oh, okay. That's great. I understand why they'd really like it if I did this. And here's the cost of me doing that.
Yeah.
Safrianna: I'm going to be sick. I'm going to be tired. I'm going to be irritable. I'm not going to enjoy myself. And that's like we really have to sit with the impact that we want to have on ourselves from our choices
Camille: Yeah, so because they're not dealing with those parts, right?
They're not having to deal with the five weeks after christmas necessarily Or whatever it is where like you're trying to come back to yourself and figure out how do I get over this, heal from this, like work through it, process and therapy, right? All of those things.
And if that happens every year, right?
Like often, I think we spend like a month preparing, a month in it, and then a month trying to heal from it. That's like a quarter of the year. And that's just right. The like, very like Western holidays. If we're celebrating anything else, like it's so much time. And yeah, I think it really gets to the point of okay.
Is that worth it to me? Am I getting enough from the experience? And for you, it's yeah, I can get that. I can like, feel good about that in my 30 minute, cookie drop off and say hi. And then I can get out and the next day, I can go about my life, hopefully, and be okay.
I usually need a day, even
Safrianna: that's how intense the energy is. I say that because for so many of us, that's how intense the energy is. We've got that old patriarchal figure in the family who just, wants to comment on something or the person that wants to make the comment about our body or what we're doing for our career or the relationship we're in and there's no capacity to talk about it.
And that's when we're like, can we keep doing this, right? When it's so much drama and so much energy, is it really worth it? We want these filling our tank and depleting our tank to be about the same level so that we always maintain. Some energy because when we get all the way down to here, like we don't have anything to give and I remember like, when I was a teacher, I would get off for the holiday breaks.
I would immediately get sick. Yep. That's what every teacher does. Oh my God. I finally have a break. I'm going to do my lesson plans. And then we would get sick because our body would be saying, No, you're not doing your lesson and you're sitting your ass down for once. And then it would be the holiday expectations and then we'd be back in school and I would never have a break.
And that's so many people's story. And I'm just here to break that with a hammer, just smashed pieces. This is winter is about rest. Winter is about retreating within. So let's look at it from, this physical, mental, emotional, spiritual lens. The physical lens, there's less sunlight out.
I can't believe it's dark at like 415 ish there because here I feel like it's been about five but I don't know maybe I need to pay more attention. But I'm on east coast and I don't know.
Camille: Yeah and I'm pretty far north in Washington state and that's something I've realized too is just that oh yeah no like it is worse here than in other places even in the U.
S. even when you are north. And that has been times them too. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And here, where I live, pretty much everyone's, I have a lamp over here. If I had it off using daylight, you would not be able to see me. So I have to, I have a sad lamp. So seasonal affective disorder lamp which a lot of people have here and basically use all day throughout winter.
Everyone likes to take their extra vitamin D cause we're not getting that outside. Sometimes. Usually more around like the new year, I start to just keep doing things outside. Again, like as a gardener, hiker, person that's into wildlife, like I like being able to continue spending time outside, but I feel like I have to have a buddy to do that because it's just so hard.
It's so hard to make myself do it. And then usually when I'm out there, I'm like, Oh yeah, this is nice. Almost like embracing the level of light that you do have. So like I said, taking my like pre or post lunch walk around the neighborhood to just be like, Oh, okay. Like we do have daylight.
No, it's not light at, five or six. But also where I live, like truly, we get about 15 hours of daylight in the summer. So we have that huge swing like how Alaska is where in the summer as a therapist, it cracks me up because people literally will be like, I don't know what it is.
I'm not doing anything differently, but I just feel so good. And I'm like, like it's, Like everyone, every client, like the same day, the first day of the sun, like really comes out. It's I just feel so great. And I don't know what it is. And it, yeah, like it's really helped me to be like. There is the seasonal part of our lives that even though we don't necessarily act that way in our workplace a lot of the time it really affects people and that's okay.
So I also allow myself in the summer. So, not sleep as much and spend a lot of I'll stay out till 10, 11 kayaking and stuff like that on the water and then staying out, whereas in the winter last night, I'm pretty sure I ate dinner at 5. 15, because it was, like, already dark.
Yeah, and I'm, like, well, I got like a hungry, like that's another thing, right? Getting your extra calories and your warmth in winter. I have chickens for eggs in my backyard and they're very affected by the light. Like they don't lay as many eggs when it's dark. They also eat way more.
Like again, it's that like part of us where I'm like, Oh yeah, we're animals. Yes. It's okay to eat more in winter. Yes, your body might be affected, like yes, maybe sugar is not like the one thing we should be eating more of, which is often what's available. But also no shame, eat whatever you need to eat to stay, happy and alive.
Cause it's hard. And like I said, like when I watch the critters outside. Yeah, they're preparing for winter. They're digging all their nuts in the ground and they're eating like weird plants in my yard that they wouldn't normally eat because there's not a lot else available. We have wild rabbits and they'll eat like trees like they'll eat Which I'm like, guys that's not
really going to help.
Camille: Yeah, like usually they'll eat leaves and grass and stuff like that, but they get to this time of year. And I was just noticing this morning. Yeah. That all these little trees that pop up in my yard, they're all like bitten off at a certain level. And I'm like, yeah, they're trying to get that like inside the tree with still green to stay alive all winter.
And I think, yeah, sometimes if we viewed ourselves that way a little more, We would, again, be able to be a little bit kinder to ourselves when things just feel harder at this
Safrianna: time of year. It's, there's this, so much of what I've done since I've stopped practicing as a therapist, I don't, I'm not currently seeing clients as a therapist, but Is the seasonal rhythm piece like I've been talking about it everywhere that I possibly can and writing about it And how I work with clients now literally has a seasonal framework no matter what time of year we do it And this winter is really like the most misunderstood Season and it's because of this commercialism, I think but yeah, I love the tips that you gave Taking that vitamin D, if you have that lamp making sure you're getting outside for just a little bit of time.
I, it was cold here this morning, but I wanted to do an earth meditation and it was only four minutes long. I was like, I can brave the cold for four minutes. Let me put my bundle up anyway and go outside and look at the trees while I do this meditation. Like little. Bitesize pieces of nature still super important to get.
And I love that you have that like time of day where you do know the sun is highest. And you can get that, that light some more. So physical, emotionally, how are we impacted during the season? Well, we've already talked a lot about the family stress and the the chaos that can come out of this time of year when it comes to obligations.
But what. Emotionally, do you see as being the impact of this season, other than that?
Camille: Yeah, I think, yeah, a lot about grief. I think that comes up a lot. I still reluctantly finally took down my Halloween Samhain decorations on I think by the time it was December, but it was pretty long.
And, yeah, to me, it still feels like that energy is still around, where we have this greater connection with. Ancestors with people that have passed, with, I had a cat pass, which like I put her on my little ancestor altar to just think about her and connect with her a bit more this time of year.
And I think a lot of that for me is yeah, having ways to like, doesn't have to be, but to like collectively. Is so helpful because I think also the other thing that comes up emotionally this time of year is like isolation. I think sometimes the weather can like the cold can lead us into that place or just emotionally, like everything feels a bit raw.
And so sometimes like one of the coping strategies is like, We decide upon is oh, no, I'm just gonna like distance myself. Because I don't really want to, I don't feel great or I don't really want to talk about that right now. Yeah, I know for me, just like again, like being kind to myself also looks like allowing for that, like great range of emotions that I feel like also come up.
Because really some people, I think also. Love the holidays. Like they love the lights. They love the guests. They love like the shiny brightness of this time of year and a lot of other ways. And I think you have to figure out like what's helpful to you. And sometimes like maybe. Being around those people can be like, Oh, thank you.
It can be overwhelming or it can just feel like I don't feel that way. And so now I'm like judging, like how I'm showing up. So yeah, I think to go back to the, yeah, emotional side of it is maybe like more reflective time to figure out what you need, right? And just again, a little more grace around yeah, you're probably going to have a lot of highs and lows and that's okay.
And trying to like have support for yourself and like people in your life that are able to help you hold that, whether it's grief or just like a larger emotional range right now can just be really. I know for myself, it's just what is soothing this time of year? And then also being mindful about what's soothing in the moment and what's soothing long term because sometimes.
Sometimes those are the same. And then I know sometimes my particular coping strategies feel great in the moment and then later I'm like, Ooh, maybe it's not the best to do like long term, for my mental and emotional health.
Safrianna: Yeah. I feel like this time of year, I go through chapters in my year or seasons in my year where like I will binge an entire story rich video game.
That's like hundreds of hours. I did that all year. I would have no time to do anything but that. So yeah, like honoring the rhythms of what supports you. I love that you mentioned, in this emotional piece, we've talked a lot about some of us, the holiday is really challenging, right? That obligation, that heaviness, like we might have family of origin memories that aren't great, that get triggered this time of year.
So like a lot of emotional complication plus the literal, depression we can feel from not getting that sunlight and that physical stuff, but also this other side, which is that some of us experience such joy. And how can each of us find the joy in this time of year, whether that is enjoying cozying up in bed a little bit earlier or enjoying that you get to turn the heat on or enjoying a fire or enjoying more hot beverages, like whatever you can find enjoyment in.
And I do remember when I was a teacher. There, I had a student who was obsessed with Christmas, obsessed. We did a project in the middle of the year and she did it on Christmas and like just talking about Christmas, she was lit up like a tree. And who are those people, right? How can we maybe get a little a little joy from their joy, right?
That can be another thing is like just looking at the people around us that are Experiencing gratitude to look to them for a little upliftment, I think, is something we can do. So, intellectually, that mental body, that thinking, that belief structure, I'm curious your thoughts this time of year, how that gets impacted, just like our thinking.
Yeah,
Camille: I think about like the zodiac signs and that like we enter Sagittarius season, which is a little more energetic and like travel based and sometimes chaotic. But, and I really just think about that. And then I know for me, come January, it feels a lot more like goals, like hardworking, like back to it.
But in And so, yeah, for me I have a friend I do co working with every week, we virtually co work, we live about an hour and a half away, so we don't necessarily see each other in person a lot but we planned an annual review and then goal setting for January 3rd. So not trying to do all that reflection when we're like in the like December time because it can just feel like, oh, that's like another thing I gotta add to the list.
Especially if you're a business owner and you have to think about taxes and like end of year school and I know like things and there's already some things right, that we are forced to. Reconcile, literally, at the end of the year, but allowing for the reflection time to maybe come afterwards.
I think it was interesting, because even just talking about this co working thing we have, we're doing a five hour okay, we're gonna review and, again set goals and hold each other accountable in this way. At first, I was like, why are we doing it in January? Ew, like what?
No, we gotta do it now. I don't know. I just had this resistance to it. And as I like get a little closer, I'm like,
no,
Camille: that's like really good. I'm glad that my friend was the one that sort of set that time up because again, it's like already, we're less than two weeks from Christmas.
And it just goes so fast. Again, that sort of like frantic energy I guess personally, I'm like, I don't want to reflect from a place of frantic energy because I'm going to set very different goals for next year when I'm in that place versus like when I've allowed myself to again, write, see the family, do the things.
Come back home adjust to back into my home quiet life with my boyfriend and my cat and my chickens outside. And then set goals from there. Because I think also intellectually that feels more aligned with my long term goals and values. Yeah, I'm trying to think like what else intellectually, I definitely get into I guess like the new year, like goal setting vibes.
I just think of I know and like September, August, I always get the back to school vibes, even though I haven't been in school super recently. And I'm not really doing anything that's In that school year just that again, to take it back to Zodiac, just that Virgo energy of gotta get my planner out I gotta what am I doing for the next sort of three to four months feels really aligned and just again, allowing myself to be like, great, that's like what I'm doing right now.
And it doesn't have to be like that all the time. And that's okay, even though I'm not in school, like embracing again. So it's the seasonal components, even if the external structures around you maybe aren't in place anymore can be super helpful.
Safrianna: Yeah. It's our societies become over identified with the mental, the thinking, and in that, We've installed so many belief systems and structures that aren't really inherently true to us, but we've thought ourselves into them.
And I love you speaking to we don't have to do our goal setting on January 1st or December 31st. We don't have to set New Year's resolutions on the first day of the year. That is. all made up. It is all made up pressure. You can set a goal for, starting January 14th, I'm going to do blah, blah, blah.
Like it does not have to be gated into this very specific time. You can let yourself hibernate and go a little bit more into the new year because Again, the dates are all made up. We just made them up and we made a calendar.
Camille: Exactly. I'm like, it's like the Gregorian calendar, which like not even like a lot of the world even utilizes like even to this day.
So like honoring that, like you don't have to go by that calendar. Yeah. You
Safrianna: might think you do, but you don't have to when it comes to finding your rhythms on like how you're going to move forward. forward because, yeah are you just thinking yourself into a box? Might be. I love, I'm seeing a lot more businesses going the direction of, not like launching right back on the first of the year or not doing a bunch of December planning and like waiting for waiting for some reprieve between winter and spring.
And it's so important for us to remember, like winter isn't Really even beginning to be over until we're transitioning, right?
Camille: I'm like, we're not even into winter. Like we are, yeah, it feels cold and yeah. It is very interesting. Yeah. And like here, I like January is honestly like. Way worse weather wise, that's usually when we get our like frozen rain, like just like ice last year, it was, I went somewhere in Washington State and it was negative 18 degrees Fahrenheit in January, which I have personally never experienced, only had read about, and I was like, Oh, this is a new level of freezing where I don't know if I totally feel safe being outside And yeah, finding those ways to, yeah, January can feel like New Year, new me gotta get back to it.
And it's no. You're actually in the depth of winter. It's like winter just started ten days ago, basically. And so we still have a long ways to go. And especially here Honestly, our summer doesn't really start till July. Like we get a Junuary, which is what they call June, which is like rainy, gloomy June.
So it rains a lot of time. I've been to weddings on June 20th that are like 50 degrees Fahrenheit and raining. And we get nice days, earlier, but it's that like false spring thing. So it can really feel like it's like dragging on. And especially when I like see East coast folks that like, Oh, sometimes in like April, it's like starting to get warmer and stuff.
I'm like, I like, can't, I'm like, sounds nice. Or like sometimes I'll travel to those places or, and I'm like, this is nice. And also I can't, From a gardening perspective can't be like thinking that I'm going to put my tomatoes out in May when we still get freezing weather in June sometimes.
Safrianna: This last year for gardening, a little beeline, and then we'll come back. Yeah. Influence of all of this, but. This year was really weird for gardening. It was actually the first year we started gardening where we live now, and it was like rollercoaster compared to many other years, which speaks to a lot of the climate stuff happening.
Yeah, but we were able, what was so beautiful that I want to speak to is the following the flow of what happened anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't what was expected at all, but life, we, modern society tries to pack life into expected. Everything's the same every day, nine to five. Like you do this, you do that, you go here, you go there.
Here's the ladder you climb for the dream, whatever. We're so variable. So like honoring your flow and this bigger flow. So yes, the seasons still do have like major arcs. If you live. Not directly on the equator or at a pole, right? There are fluctuations and we are deeply impacted by those and all the levels that we're talking about.
So, yeah. So spiritually when we're in this dark season and of course for me, spirituality is a very unique to every single person, their connection to their higher self and or their higher power, however they connect. But that, Darkness really calls us inward, right? When it is so dark and we're not outside and we're not running errands all the time or we're doing this, it calls us into a deeper part of ourselves.
So I'm curious what observations you have around like your own spirituality, clients the collective when it comes to this time of year.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah, I'm almost right now thinking about Oh, is this why the holidays can feel so much is just because I personally, I've been having like very vivid dreams, like where I'm like writing it, I like wake up in the night and write it down.
And then in the morning, I like have no recollection. And I'm like, huh, fascinating that I had that and wrote that down. Very cool. Where it's almost yeah, I feel this like connection to spirit, divine, like getting downloads kind of thing that like you said, feels like this very kind of like internal world.
And I know for me personally, right? Like I also generally have to, or choose to Spend less time on social media spend less time in a lot of those crowded, energetic situations. And I almost am having this right now, this oh, is that part of why it can feel so draining?
It's maybe because I do feel a bit more. connected to Spira at this time of year and when I'm around other people or in that like comparison energy grossness sometimes like it can really just Make me very judgmental of myself or again the Oh, am I doing the things I said I was going to do?
I'm did I get everything done this year that I said I was going to do in January, right? Some of that, like reflective parts that can feel more shadowy, right? Where we get a little like critical So I guess for me, that's what shows up. I know generally I'm like picking up my tarot cards more.
I'm like definitely lighting more candles. Like I try to light a lot of candles at this time of year. Not to fight the darkness, but at least for me it's more like embracing the duality that normally comes up I'd say. Like I get a lot of like more fun lights out. I'm like turning on my lava lamp and my little twinkle light.
and like candles and stuff. To just, yeah, feel more cozy. And I'm trying to think yeah, spiritually cozy for me also sometimes looks like picking up those books again, or just things that maybe I've set aside. In kind of the busier season of life or business or whatever it is, and I just find myself like a little more receptive and yeah, sometimes a little more like academic or intellectually available to take in some of that.
Or I feel like I get deeper insights at this time of year. I make space. Yeah. For that to
Safrianna: happen. Yeah. I love that. That really, because it is this more hibernation, slow down time, if we're honoring the rhythm. If we're not. It was that if. Yeah. Yeah. But when we're really honoring that rhythm and doing the slow down, it does, I found myself picking up a self development y book.
The other day that I I've had no interest until literally the other day. And I'm like, yeah, it might be time to pick that back up. But yeah I view, this 3D realm where we're living as the light. It's like what we can see. And the 5D is the shadow. It's what we can't see, but we can shine a light into through consciousness.
And. So symbolically looking at this time of year, even with the Christmas lights or the, the string lights the candles, all of that kind of represents bringing light into the darkness, which is what we're doing when we're self reflecting and going within or connecting to spirit is we're bringing light into that, yeah.
other dimensional spiritual space of awareness. And so, yeah, I love everything that you shared. And I think it's like a major invitation to us to figure out what gives us the capacity to go inward. What we like to do to go inward, whether that's journaling or reading the self development book, or just like lighting the candle and taking a breath and having a moment of gratitude, whatever it might be to have that connection with that higher self, that spirit, and that acknowledgement of the things we can't see, right?
As witchy people, we know the veil, like we've heard that term veil, and when it's dark that veil is not as thick because we literally are more in the shadow than we're used to. So there's so much wisdom and symbolism in this time of year, and that can be something that we can do spiritually is explore the symbolism we're impacted by at this time of year.
So
Camille: yeah. Yeah. And I think it's yeah, we have to create that space to like allow it to come through. Cause that can be hard. I'm like thinking about gardening right now that like in winter is often the best time to do your hardscaping, which is paths, like things that aren't plants necessarily, buildings, greenhouses, like I built a pond, I did that in spring, but like the foundational things so that when you're in this sort of like lighter, brighter, like energetic time of year that you can fill it in, but almost like creating that like foundation in the winter time.
And I think that can also look like goals or like new year's resolutions. But yeah, I was just really like thinking about that connection of like almost that when there's nothing else. like in the garden, you can see very clearly like what you want to happen or what might be missing or what you want to add because there's just not this other clutter to visually distract or whatever it might be.
Yeah,
Safrianna: I love that. Yes. Like just thinking about my garden right now. You're exactly right. Like it's, everything's dying away. So you can really see the base that's there. This is a great time to revisit your foundations and reflect inwardly about them. And if you set those resolutions, Just a reminder, you don't have to be on day one of the new year.
It can be, I'm setting a goal this spring, I'm going to do this. And then you're building the foundations, the runway to get you there slowly over time, instead of frantic panic energy of I need to be perfect. And I think that if we were to really speak to the shadow side of This time of year, I think so many people strive for perfection in interactions and in holidays and in vacations.
And so letting go of that perfectionism and just being with where am I grateful? Where can I have my boundaries? Where can I go within more revisit, revise, refine for next year, daydream, brainstorm, but not be fully in the action all the time. That's what this time of year is really calling us to. So, anything else you want to say on that?
Camille: I don't think so. Yeah, I definitely, the perfectionism, I think it's on the money. Of what of that can be almost like the shadow side, like you said, of this time of year where, especially just when we have that nostalgia about what holidays used to be or look like or feel like.
It can be so hard to not just push for that feeling. And I feel like honestly It's never going to be the same. And so it's okay, what do you want it to look like? This is like the invitation to like, what do you, yeah. What do you want to build? What do you want to create? What do you want to celebrate this time of year and actually align it like with your values, with that, like internal.
self instead of right where we're often forced or expected to just take on the ideas of others around this time. Yeah. Yeah.
Safrianna: I love that. And I think that is a beautiful note to leave everyone with. Is this what do you want? To celebrate what do you want to acknowledge and cheer on in your life?
That's so poignant. So thank you so much, Camille, for getting on with me and talking about all of these things and yeah. And whatever your experiences, my friends of the season no, that we're cheering you on in. Walking your values, right? Embodying your boundaries and taking care of yourself because that's what we're here to do is gently take care of ourselves so that we have the capacity to be in relationship with others and, have communities.
So thank you again. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. All right, my friends. So until next time, we'll be, I'll be back at some point, probably talking about the insurance system sometime soon. So that'll be fun. All right. Bye for now, friends.
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